Thursday, October 23, 2008
Tony Hayling
Calvinistic by persuasion
Mystic by nature
Artisitic by inclination
Pacific by preference
Pugilistic when indicated
Supercalifragilistic - on occasion
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4 Comments:
Tony,
I think I will have to disagree with Toplady, at least in part. Isn't faith a condition, or requirement, of salvation? But then how do we resolve the argument that it becomes a covenant of works? Isn't faith the Biblical opposite of works? And isn't faith a condition which God supplies in us, thus fulfilling His own requirement in us? Isn't it both a condition and a consequence of covenant interest, rather than an either/or situation?
Lots of questions here, but I really think it's important to see both sides of the coin on this. Am I misunderstanding Toplady? I appreciate that great old hymn he wrote. Wasn't it Rock of Ages?
Is Toplady's statement perhaps reflecting a supralapsarian perspective, tending toward the high side of Calvinism?
Derek,
This is a sharply conceived objection.
Toplady is speaking of an "interest in the new covenant"; in other words, his reference is to "election unto salvation" and not to salvation itself.
Another way to say it is that election is unconditional, but salvation is not; IOW we must repent and believe in order to be saved, but not in order to be elect. It is a matter of the ordo salutis.
The secret decree of election inevitably comes to pass, but the elect all enter the kingdom via repentance and faith which they must exercise themselves; God will not do it for them. It is all yet one more facet of the paradox of God's overarching eternal will and man's responsibility.
I'm not sure of Toplady's views on the fall, but I would think it likely he was indeed a supralapsarian and a high Calvinist. However this quotation is one to which I would think all reformed and Calvinistic believers would subscribe, once it was properly understood.
Remember that the Rock of Ages was cleft for YOU :-)
Blessings,
Tony
I believe when I listened to Curt Daniel's lectures on the history and theology of Calvinism, he mentioned Toplady as a high Calvinist and a supralapsarian.
The distinction between salvation in time and election in eternity makes sense of the statement. Defining "covenant interest" makes all the difference. So much of Calvinism sounds absurd on the surface, but on further reflection the fog clears. On the other hand, Arminianism sounds logical on the surface - but when you go deeper into it the problems become apparent. It's downright paradoxical.
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